[SATLUG] Linux Not Ready for the Desktop

[Kase Saylor]

John,



Thanks for the input. OpenGroupware is one of the solutions I'm 

considering. I wouldn't mind using an "Exchange replacement" if it would 

allow my division to eventually migrate. We don't use Exchange, but I'll 

just focus on the calendar solution right now. I will certainly seek 

input for the Capstone and I appreciate your offer to read.



-Kase



John Pappas wrote:

> Hey Kase,

>

> If you are only looking for calendaring/collaboration, Citadel is

> overkill, as it is an exchange replacement (as are Zimbra and Scalix,

> both of which have gotten good reviews though, and Zimbra has a large

> footprint in Academia).

>

> I have not yet tried

> , but it

> looks like more of a fit, unless you want to replace Exchange for

> Email also.

>

> Interesting Capstone, I would be interested in reading it, if you are

> looking for outside input...

>

> Thanks!

> John

>

> On 10/28/07, Kase Saylor  wrote:

>   

>> John Pappas wrote:

>>

>>     

>>> This is a long one.  I felt that I needed to vent, as well as solicit

>>>       

>>> input on my "Business Linux" adventures.  SO here goes:

>>>       

>>> As a business owner that is also a Linux bigot, I had the opportunity

>>>       

>>> in late 2004-early 2005 to start a "green field" IT Infrastructure of

>>>       

>>> my choosing.  Having used Linux (Both Production and Personally) for

>>>       

>>> years before that, I considered myself to be a reasonably strong

>>>       

>>> "Power User" or maybe even SysAdmin II or so.

>>>       

>>> In the beginning ALL my servers were Linux, as were ALL of my

>>>       

>>> desktops.  We did not have anybody other than myself (as a working

>>>       

>>> consultant) on a laptop (search my previous posts with regard to my

>>>       

>>> rock-solid ThinkPad t43p), which ran SUSE (and still does).

>>>       

>>> All business line apps, including:

>>>       

>>> --  PBX (Asterisk by Fonality),

>>>       

>>> --  CRM (SugarCRM),

>>>       

>>> --  WWW (Apache),

>>>       

>>> --  File shares (NFS/SAMBA/FTP),

>>>       

>>> -- other cats and dogs, including the dev environment for the above

>>>       

>>> -- Only accounting uses a windows only solution (QuickBooks) and Linux

>>>       

>>> accounting solutions are "Too Big" for our needs (So far :)

>>>       

>>> All are on a Linux Variant (mostly SUSE, but fedora and others are in the mix)

>>>       

>>> My support infrastructure runs mostly Linux, except my embedded

>>>       

>>> systems (Polycom SIP phones, wireless access points, and other such)

>>>       

>>> and my firewalls are M0n0Walls.

>>>       

>>> I run a completely virtualized environment, originally on VMWare GSX

>>>       

>>> Server, which then became Vmware Server.  My PBX is on a physical box,

>>>       

>>> as that is how it is supported, and it has access to a Wildcat PRI

>>>       

>>> card for PSTN access.

>>>       

>>> For special cases, I built VMWare Workstation/Player Windows images

>>>       

>>> for my accountants, so that they could use IE and QuickBooks online,

>>>       

>>> along with other such Windows only Cats and Dogs.

>>>       

>>> It worked well for about 18 months, until we decided to go to laptops

>>>       

>>> for the staff.  Even with a "standard" platform, things that "always"

>>>       

>>> work on Windows (Sound, Printing, Hibernate, On the fly multi monitor

>>>       

>>> setups, Wireless, Sprint Wireless, etc) were too fragile on Linux, and

>>>       

>>> my constituents were beginning to mutiny as these "fundamental"

>>>       

>>> capabilities were continually "misbehaving" or just not functional.

>>>       

>>> As a result, I have my laptop fleet on Windows XP managed by Webex

>>>       

>>> System Management services, since they are often not geographically

>>>       

>>> near me, and I have to have console access, anti virus, and very

>>>       

>>> active patch management.  My Desktops are all (except one) still Linux

>>>       

>>> (SUSE).

>>>       

>>> I have 2 parallel VPN setups (Hamachi and PPTP via Monowall) so that

>>>       

>>> all my platforms have proper remote access to the File shares (I

>>>       

>>> really want to get rid of generic file services and move to Alfresco

>>>       

>>> or similar, but I have not yet).  Since windows has "Disconnected"

>>>       

>>> operation with shares, they just sync up via the VPN and then work off

>>>       

>>> line when required.    For my own laptop, I use Unison via SSH to keep

>>>       

>>> the files I need in sync, as NFS has no offline capabilities.

>>>       

>>> We use still OpenOffice.org exclusively, as well as Mozilla Firefox

>>>       

>>> and Thunderbird (with Lightning calendaring).

>>>       

>>> There have only been minor hiccups with OOo, always when dealing with

>>>       

>>> MSO proprietary formats, and occasionally, MSO has an issue with

>>>       

>>> "transcoded" ODx to MSO formats.  Most complaints are (and have been)

>>>       

>>> easily overcome with training and compelling arguments.

>>>       

>>> My Opinion on OOo v. MSO is that most companies use flawed assumptions

>>>       

>>> when assessing a possible move to FLOSS Office suites.  The

>>>       

>>> particularly bad one: "There must be 100% Compatibility."  This has

>>>       

>>> stopped nearly all attempts of which I am aware.  Anyway, 100% of

>>>       

>>> anything is always flawed, so a more reasonable bar must be set, say

>>>       

>>> 90% or even 95%, which are both attainable.  The remaining 5-10% can

>>>       

>>> be overcome with a document manager(s) equipped with MSO and the ODT

>>>       

>>> Plugin from sourceforge, along with a process for "Translation

>>>       

>>> Requests" to be executed by said managers.  For the remaining 1% that

>>>       

>>> use "MSO Only" advanced functionality, just equip them with MSO, ODT

>>>       

>>> plugin, and PDF production capability, so that they can still

>>>       

>>> inter-operate and produce whatever it is that requires MSO.

>>>       

>>> Yes, migration expends resources, but what is the long-term cost of

>>>       

>>> having your valuable business data locked up in a binary (except the

>>>       

>>> newer docx formats), proprietary format that has no future

>>>       

>>> compatibility promise and is owned by one company?

>>>       

>>> I am not willing to accept that type of data lock-in, so my policies

>>>       

>>> REQUIRE source document storage in OASIS, and production documents in

>>>       

>>> PDF.

>>>       

>>> The only remaining sticking point is Visio.  There is no Linux

>>>       

>>> methodology to access those files, and I try to get users to use Kivio

>>>       

>>> (Kivio MP if more capability or MS windows is required), but then

>>>       

>>> collaboration is limited with external partners/parties/agencies.

>>>       

>>> So that is the short version of my tale.  Please reply with any

>>>       

>>> comments, tips, or other feedback.  I hope this has shed some light on

>>>       

>>> Linux in business, from a real multi-million dollar business

>>>       

>>> experience.

>>>       

>>> Thanks for your time!

>>>       

>>> John

>>>       

>> John,

>>

>>

>>

>> I enjoyed reading your "tale". I'm currently working on a proposal for

>>

>> my Capstone project for my MS in Management of Technology at UTSA. I'm

>>

>> proposing a project where I'll select and implement an open source

>>

>> calendar solution for the division I work in. The solution will have to

>>

>> support Outlook as well as other email clients (I use Thunderbird with

>>

>> Lightning) and the calendar will have to be accessible via a web

>>

>> browser, too. I just finished up a section in the proposal that dealt

>>

>> with TOC and how, in my situation, I believe that an open source

>>

>> solution would have a lower TOC than MS Exchange Server. I'm currently

>>

>> looking at Citadel and two other solutions, but if you have any more

>>

>> suggestions, I would be most appreciative. I did look at a simple WebDAV

>>

>> solution, but I don't think that solution is robust enough (reminders,

>>

>> repeating events, etc.), and I'd like to find a solution that will work

>>

>> with Outlook without too much work.

>>

>>

>>

>> Regards,

>>

>>

>>

>> Kase

>>

>>

>>

>>

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